Mom & Me Four Archive

    Although this transcript is, as are all the others, dated according to when it was taped, it's actually taken me forever to get around to transcribing this and the other interviews, which will be coming next, although not necessarily in quick succession. I haven't divided this one up into sections as I did the "Who Am I?" transcript. Although Mom and I began this interview with the idea that I'd ask questions from a particular survey, in the hope of avoiding "yes" and "no" answers, most of the interview, except the very last few questions, dealt with her religious upbringing and spiritual life.
    I notice that we were only partially successful in avoiding the types of answers we were hoping to avoid. In this interview I still did most of the talking, in the form of rather long questions and/or interruptions, when Mom was having trouble finding words, designed to solicit her thoughts or put them into words with which she agreed. I would have liked to have gotten her talking more. I hope in some of the subsequent interviews I accomplished this, although I'm doubtful since I think the reasons we stopped the interviews is because we had little success getting her to talk extensively on tape...probably mostly the fault of me, the interviewer. She does talk enough in this interview, though, to show that she is thoughtful, well in control of her mental faculties despite her dementia-lite and perfectly able and willing to carry on conversations, despite having to search for words. Although it may be hard to believe, she was the same when she died three years later, except for the last three days before she died, when her body was breaking down and just about everything became incredibly difficult for her.
    As I transcribed this interview today, 7/28/10, I noticed I became annoyed with myself that I didn't stick with the interviewing process long enough to get us both to relax to the point where she talked more and I listened more. I hope I did better in subsequent interviews, but I doubt that I did.
    This was also the first interview through which I decided to edit out the many, many pauses, during which my mother picked around for words. The editing is obvious as you listen to the tape. I did some of this in the "Who Am I?" interview, but that one was quite a bit more lively and required less editing. It also took place on the same day, I notice, as this interview. Perhaps, by this time, we were both getting tired of the process.
    I also note that the interview ends very abruptly, which I didn't remember. At first I thought that maybe I'd cut our usual "Bye-bye audience" part off or it hadn't transferred as I was moving files around, but, no, that's where I stopped the recording. Not sure why.

["G:" is Gail. "M:" is Mom.]

Transcript of "The Second Interview"

G: Okay, so this is the second part of our interview for January the 12th, Mom & Me the Podcast, and after the first interview we decided to skip over to the questionnaire. So, this is going to be the more formal part of the interview. Mom and I have just hit upon a solution to this sort of going through questions and getting "yes" and "no" answers problem. I'm going to pause the tape, we're going to go through questions and when we come across one that Mom would especially like to answer, that's when we're going to start the tape recorder.
M: Oh, okay.
G: Here's a question that I'm hoping you will be able to elaborate on. Are you a spiritual person?
M: Spiritual, yes.
G: Talk about your spirituality for me.
M: To me, being spiritual has a full meaning as to how I live or how I think.
G: Can you give me an example right off the top of your head of how your spirituality has influenced you? Let me kind of set you up for this, okay? Your mother was a minister's daughter...
M: Yes...
G: ...and she came from a long line of ministers...
M: ...yes...
G: ...and you were very familiar with specifically Methodist, ah, Methodism as it influences a family that practices it.
M: ...yes.
G: How much of your spirituality, now, reflects your spirituality, or your struggles with spirituality when you were younger?
M: I think quite a bit of it.
G: Do you still consider yourself a Methodist?
M: Oh, yes.
G: And do you consider yourself a Christian?
M: Yes.
G: What is a Christian?
M: A Christian is someone who believes in God and...
G: Do you think that a Christian has to believe that Jesus is the son of God?
M: I think that you do, whether you realize it or not.
G: Do you think that a Christian has to believe that Jesus died on the cross for our sins?
M: No, I don't think that.
G: What do you think is the most important thing about Jesus' life, from the point of view of being a Christian?
M: The fact that he even lived.
G: Do you think it's important that Christians believe that he was divine and is the Son of God?
M: Yes.
G: When you were in your sixties and seventies, you and I would get together in the evening and do a lot of reading out of a variety of books, some of them, the Jane Roberts books about Seth, we also read that series of books by the author Fox, you know what, I can't remember his first name but they were a whole series of essays on Christianity. Would you say that your attitudes, your spiritual attitudes, are pretty close to the mainstream of Christian thought, or vary from that?
M: No, I think they're pretty close to it.
G: Give me some ideas of what mainstream Christian thought is.
M: The fact that I tend to forgive rather easily.
G: You attribute that to your Christianity?
M: Yeah.
G: Do you remember ever, ever having a discussion with yourself about forgiveness? Has it always been easier for you to forgive people or did you have an epiphany moment when you realized that it would be better if you forgave people?
M: I think it's always been easy for me.
G: What was your family's spiritual life like? I know that you guys went to church every Sunday.
M: Yes.
G: And that all of you kids went to Sunday School.
M: Yes.
G: Did everybody in your family attend or were there members of your family who religiously did not go to church and Sunday School?
M: James [Mom's brother, two years older than her].
G: James didn't. From what age did James decide not to go?
M: When he got old enough to where he could say, "I'm staying home."
G: How old was that?
M: Probably, oh dear...
G: Was he in high school when he did that?
M: I think it was just before he went into high school.
G: Just before he went into high school. Okay.
M: Mmm hmm.
G: Did you ever want not to go to church and Sunday School?
M: No.
G: Did you teach Sunday School when you were younger?
M: Yes.
G: At what age did you stop going to Sunday School and start teaching Sunday School?
M: I don't know, but it seems to me it was someplace in, umm...
G: High School?
M: Yeah...
G: Junior High, maybe?
M: Junior High, probably.
G: Do you think there was anyone in your family, your mom, your dad, James, Jean and you, that did not believe in God?
M: No. Ah, James may have questioned it, but I think when it came right down to it he believed in him.
G: Did your dad go to church and Sunday School?
M: He went to ch...yes. He did.
G: He went to both?
M: He didn't go to Sunday School, so much, but he did go to church.
G: When you were younger and living at home did you guys ever have discussions about religion and spirituality?
M: No.
G: Do you remember that, within the family that you gave birth to, us, that we used to do that a lot?
M: Yes.
G: When you were younger and in your born-into family did you ever wish that your family would discuss those things at home, or did any of you ever even find it necessary to discuss those things?
M: We never did discuss it and I don't think we ever found it necessary. We just accepted.
G: You know, it was largely due to you and Dad that we at home discussed religion and spirituality and our beliefs at all. What do you think was the difference between when you were younger and then when you had your own family that allowed you to decide that discussions about religion and spirituality would be a good thing within the family you gave birth to?
M: I think it's a matter of how we, how, I know what I'm thinking but...
G: Describe the picture if you can't think of a way to say it. What was the difference between our family and the family that you were born into, that made it comfortable for you to allow your family that you created to discuss religion and spirituality?
M: Well, the fact that we accepted ideas like that.
G: So, within the family you were born into that acceptance didn't exist.
M: No. You just did.
G: Do you remember internally when you were younger questioning any of the...
M: Oh, no.
G: ...relig...oh, really? It just simply wasn't done, even to the point of not questioning, then?
M: That's right.
G: I do remember you telling me that the communities within which you lived were pretty homogenous, so that the Catholic within the community was noticed. If someone was of a different religion, um, I mean of a different sect it was usually one Catholic in a community of Protestants. Is that correct?
M: Yeah.
G: Do you recall if there were any divisions between different denominations of Protestantism? I'm sure that Methodism wasn't the only Protestant denomination in your, in any of your communities, isn't that correct?
M: As far as I know that was correct.
G: Do you remember any of the others? Do you remember, for instance, if there were Presbyterians or Episcopalians...
M: Presbyterians...
G: ...what about Baptists? Um, there were very many Baptists in the...
M: No, I don't remember.
G: Were there rivalries between the Presbyterians and the Methodists?
M: Not really, there was to a certain extent, "They believed that because they were Presbyterians,"...
G: [laughs] Do you remember any of your grandfather's preaching? Do you recall attending his services?
M: No.
G: Was he retired by the time that you started...
M: He had retired, pretty much, by the time.
G: Do you remember attending the services of anybody that you were related to?
M: No.
G: Do you remember meeting the aunt of yours that was a deaconess?
M: I don't think I ever did.
G: Do you feel the same, now, toward people who are not Protestant as you did then?
M: It depends on what they are.
G: Can you elaborate for me on that?
M: Yes. Say they're, they're Catholic. I can feel as though they, there must be something missing in their upbringing.
G: Really? Why do you feel that?
M: Because, anybody that has any thinking at all isn't Catholic. Or, isn't Protestant. Or whatever...
G: [laughing] ...is...I think you meant isn't Catholic. Do you mean that, seriously?
M: That's the way I feel way down deep.
G: Really!
M: Mmm.
G: Well, then, is that why there was such an uproar, which I never understood, when Davy and Elaine got married and...
M: ...Mmm.
G: ...or, Davy converted to Catholicism? What is it about the Catholic religion that you think is missing? The reason I'm asking you is, as you know we were, you know we lived on a Catholic island. And, although I'm not Catholic, because I attended so many services and had so many friends that were Catholic and became so familiar with the liturgy and the ritual, curiously, I feel as though Catholicism is the Christian religion that has a lot more to offer and is a lot fuller than Protestantism. So, that's why I'm curious to know what it is you think is missing in Catholicism.
M: I think that Catholicism accepts religion without, without really, I was going to say, thinking about it, but that isn't it.
G: Interestingly, you just finished telling me that your entire family pretty much accepted Methodism and Christianity...
M: ...oh yes...
G: ...without thinking about it at all.
M: They did. Mother was Methodist and her family were all Methodists, Grandpa was a Methodist minister, so, they just accepted it.
G: And, your great-grandpa was also a Methodist minister, isn't that right?
M: As far as I know.
G: He was the circuit rider that you told me about, right?
M: Oh, yeah.
G: Okay. So and I, and you told me fairly recently that you remembered that your great-grandfather was a fire and brimstone minister, but that his son, your grandfather, was a much more mild mannered minister. And we talked about the possibility that maybe your grandfather was that way in reaction to your great-grandfather.
M: Could be.
G: How old were you when you started thinking about your spirituality? See as how...
M: ...oh, my...
G: ...that wasn't encouraged in your family?
M: I don't know, but rather young, I think. Um...
G: Before you went to college?
M: Oh yes.
G: When you were in high school?
M: Yes, I would say that.
G: When you started thinking about your spirituality did you ever talk to anyone in your family about it?
M: No. Now, I tried at one time to talk to Mother but you don't discuss those things with mother [chuckling].
G: What was it that you tried to approach her about? Do you remember? What spiritual issue?
M: I don't remember...years ago.
G: Do you remember some of the things that you questioned in your own mind, whether or not you talked to Grandma and Grandpa about them?
M: No, to Grandpa it didn't matter.
G: Your dad, you mean?
M: Yeah.
G: Did you ever talk to him about your spirituality?
M: No.
G: Well, 'cause he never really impressed me as someone who cared to discuss stuff like that. He'd rather fish.
M: Yeah.
G: [laughing]
M: That's true.
G: That's true. Or talk about stones and rocks...
M: Yeah...
G: ...or talk about other people.
M: ...yeah...
G: It was actually your father who was the gossip.
M: That's right.
G: In fact, I don't remember your mom ever talking about anyone.
M: No, no.
G: But I can remember...
M: ...goodness no!
G: ...all kinds of little tidbits that came out of your dad's mouth!
M: [laughing] Yeah. Right.
G: So what were some of the things that you thought about or that you questioned in your spirituality when you started to question?
M: I don't remember, Gail.
G: One thing that I know is that in college you took at least two courses in religion, different world religions, because a couple of years ago we ran across your textbooks for those courses and you told me, well, it was more than a couple of years ago, it was about, probably about ten years ago, after I moved in and we started going through your boxes and stuff. At least in college you had an interest in other kinds of religions.
M: I took a couple of courses in college on religion.
G: Why did you do that?
M: Because I wanted to know about them.
G: Did learning about other religions change your views about your own...
M: No. Mmm mmm.
G: ...spirituality? Did the kinds of discussions that we, your children, instigate at home, and, as I recall, Dad would often talk about Christianity...
M: Oh yeah.
G: ...not in, not in the best of terms, that's how a lot of these discussions would get started, is Dad would hear something or read something and start a kind of a rant about Christianity and then we'd all join in and start talking...
M: ...yeah...
G: ...Christianity through, and other religions as well...what do you think changed in you that you were able to not only allow discussions like that within your home but actually participate in them...
M: mmm hmmm...
G: ...and encourage them?
M: Well, uh, I began to think that, uh, possibly Methodism wasn't the only religion and that the other religions had a space in there, too.
G: How do you feel, now, about, um, one religion over another, do you think that everyone should be one religion?
M: Oh, no.
G: Did you used to think that everybody should be Christian?
M: Christian? Yes.
G: Okay. But now you don't think that's true. Is that correct?
M: Now, it really doesn't matter to me, because of the fact that I have come across so many differences in the other religions that are...
G: ...that aren't really differences, right?
M: ...they...were...that's right.
G: Let's just sort of do a little impromptu trying of some questions, some attitude questions that I just ran across. Do you find it difficult to accept compliments?
M: Depends on the compliment. If I think people are just making it up just because they think they should I find it difficult to accept it. But if, if I feel that they are really sincere than I can accept it.
G: How do you judge whether they're just making it up? Is it what the compliment says or how the person delivers it?
M: What the compliment says.
G: So, in other words, you think you know yourself pretty well so that you know whether or not someone...
M: I think so.
G: ...should be complimenting you on something. Do you think there are major differences between men and women?
M: No, I don't think so.
G: Is that fr, from experience?
M: From experience, yes.
G: Describe your attitude toward members of the opposite sex.
M: Well, I don't think that men think about things the way women do.
G: Let me ask you one more question and then I think we'll put up the tape...Do you think anybody within our family, that any of our attitudes need to be adjusted?
M: Well, the only one that I can think of is James. And I don't think that that's his fault entirely. I think it's because he's a man.
G: Do you feel the same way toward my dad, your husband?
M: It needs something, I don't know, remember what.
G: What about James' attitude to you think needed to be adjusted?
M: Well, he, uh, what he said was It.
G: Do you think that was because he was a man or do you think it was because he was the oldest son?
M: I think it was a little bit of both.
G: Did he get on your nerves?
M: Yes!
G: [laughs] Did that ever straighten out as you got older or did he continue to get on your nerves?
M: Uhll, he, uh, continued to get on my nerves, but he knew it, and so he would be a little more careful.
G: As he got older?
M: Yeahmm.
G: Did you learn to appreciate him more as he got older?
M: Nnnoooo...
G: [laughing and clapping]
M: [laughing]
G: Oh. Well, that's an optimistic, that's an optimistic attitude there.